Stereo Typing a Brahmin…
Truth is neither myself or any of my relatives or friends who belong to this cursed community reveal our cultural identity in a public space. Not that we care to do it is a concious effort to ensure that our religious identity is not revealed at any cost. This is the case with most brahmins in the city i have interacted with and there is a reason why.
Before you judge me as a BJP or an RSS supporter i will kindly remind you that im an atheist of first cadre and the BJP or RSS/VHP did no good for than the Congress for the Kashmiri Brahmins during their reign. So forget the losers and lets move on with our discussion….
Note: I could not figure out quite how to put this from a third person perspective so i addressed it as “I” which is a easier thing to write. Read it as from a common man/3rd person perspective.
Its a delicate situation. Credit the solid foundation work laid by politicians like Anna, MGR, Kalaignar and the long list of dravidian leaders the word “Brahmin” today reminds everyone of arrogant, dis-respective, communal and abusive extremists who whip the lower caste dalits or whomever it maybe till they die. Thats a vivid picture that paints your mind when you hear that word.
Its true that the past is not a clean tale for the brahmins. Their hands are as much covered in blood as it can be. And yes, its a closed community who don’t allow easily outsiders inside their homes and don’t maintain any sort of interactive relationships outside the community. But that has changed all over now to such a drastic extent. Everytime someone happens to find out my cultural identity exclamations fire around “but you don’t look like one!”. The shock on their faces reveal a lot more than what the words can say. I apologize and tell them im a bad one and i dont wear my holy symbol on the forehead.
The point is how long do we stereotype people? Why the hatred? An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind, this being cleverly deployed by politicians to keep us blind where in the meantime they rob us off everything.
Some real funny questions come up when some people find out you are a brahmin. I’ve been asked “how come you eat eggs?” and “How come you listen to english music?” “Why are you not wearing the poonal?” “where is your sign on the forehead?”
I mean does that mean that all acharyas today are in the goldsmith trade and all chettiars have oil store and provision stores. I disbelieve that because most of the work with me in a top dog IT company and are good colleagues and friends. I often get asked “Why did you brahmins treat us lower caste people badly? Untouchables huh? You deserve it all!” kind of statements. Its very very funny because i have to travel back in time using a time machine and find out which loser great grand father of mine abused which lower caste person, hand cuff him and probably in a shariya style punishment execute him or something, perhaps that would chill down these questions and statements.
As long as stereo typing exists progress will be lame. We will never have all communities of a society as a whole coming forward to make a change. This my dear ladies and gentlemen is our problem. We need to address this.
To start with the field caste and community could be erazed with all bloody forms both governmental and non governmental. I mean we have cell phones and PAN cards nowadays, sure we dont need caste and community as a means of identification.
Dilip,
I am still trying to figure out what is this do with Chennai blogs. Not sure if you are running out of topics. I would say such things can go forum discussions thank this blog.
Whoops !
nice post… :)
nice post… :) …. It’s about Brahmins and Chennai has as a lot to do with Brahmins… the author is working in Chennai and his colleagues (the ones who are stereotyping…) are also working in Chennai… So, I believe that its very much a post about Chennai.
Friends, Does this blog always have to contain only news items and other ‘things’ in Chennai? Can’t the authors write stuff out of their own experiences that are related to Chennai?
Oops… Again?…
One religion I can choose to blame for many evils in Indian society is christianity, since the British gave them a head start over the locals.
Education is the only bull dozer that can level all castes and religions. The question is : can we afford to buy the bulldozer?
Unless brahmins are not part of the people, there is no reason why their problems cannot be discussed, when many of them are leading a life much worse than a wretched stray dog.
When blogs discuss on many problems like poor people affected by floods, diseases, poverty and penury of dalits, minorities issues, so many issues about garibi log, human interest stories, of agony and pain and discrimination of writers and artistes of different sections of people, minorities, beggars’ problems etc, i feel there maynot be any problem in discussing about plight of brahmins, many of whom are leading no better than a dog’s life.
There are many members of this community living in penury and poverty, like many other people belonging to other sections. Because of poverty, they are unable to provide good education. No reservations in schools or jobs like minorities and other sections of people. No political party bothers about them, as they are insignificant as vote banks and financially non-entites.
Compounding their problems is ridiculing them in films, TV serials and in some sections of media day-in and day-out, and portraying them as jokers and self-centred lot. Their condition is no better than other similarly placed people in other sections. Other sections of the people at least have the support of governments, political parties and media.
When I joined the metroblog, I was told posts should pertain to the city, and life in the city. writing on the microsoft zune or on brahmins and their identity does not deserve its place on this blog.
UDyams, this post is not related to chennai in anyway, except that the author resides in chennai.
Hey Dilip…
I liked your top 10 missing characters, top 10 rumours and some other wonderful posts… but whats happening to you?
This blog does not deserve a place here. When suggesting a story, it is clearly mentioned that the story has to be about the city. I do admit that people make places but this blog, here, is simply BS.
People who want to address the problem must stick on the terms and conditions of the site. To put it in plain Tamizh, ‘idam, porul, eval’ are important when you communicate. Just because you have something to blog about, doesn’t mean that you can blog anywhere. If you feel you have a right to blog anything anywhere, I also feel that I have a right to criticize yours!
It throws me an impression that you are craving for more audience to read your stuff and on the lookout for cheap publicity for your posts. I’m sorry to say this, but – as you had written your mind loud, I had to react loud.
I found the post, and the following discussion, an interesting read. I am not quite sure what the author meant with the first two sentences since he seems rather keen to “reveal his cultural identity in public spaces”, as he puts it.
From my humble, non-desi, point of view I believe that posts like Dilip’s give first-hand insides that are near impossible to obtain otherwise. I live in this town too and I will for 3 more years at least. Do let me have a peek.
Off-topic but to the point, I am a bit sad that nobody took up my post suggestion about the new Enfield. This was, after all, about Chennai and it’s number one home-grown export article.
Don’t censor to death! Give us something to read!
The concerns addressed are real, but the way it is put forward seems a bit ‘old style’.
Well, times might be changing, but the stereotype truely exists to this day. Saying it doesnt is closing an eye towards reality. A startling example would be the girl who spoke on the Vijay TV show, Neeya Naana. (The episode telecast on the 4th of Nov). She made the following statement.
“Naan oru iyengar. Naan iyengaara porakaradhukku pona jenmathula punniyam panni irukanum nnu nenaikurein. Iyengaara porandhu naan vera jaadhi paiyana kalyaanam elaam panna maatein”..
Translating to English
“I am an Iyengar. I should have been blessed to have been born as an Iyengar. Having been born as an Iyengar, how can I get married to someone from some other caste”
She, Dilip, is as much as the IT person that you are trying to represent. She belongs to the same 21st century Chennaiite whom u are trying to represent. Yet, this attitude still remains.
Vikram.
Quite curious to know of the evils that came along with christianity??? What say parthasarathy.
What’s wrong with someone wanting to marry within their community, or not wanting to marry someone from another community?
Brahmins are as much humans as others. They have as much flaws as others. They have as many good virtues as others. Those who think brahmins are supernatural beings and those who think they should suffer more and more due to segregation propagated by some ancient elders, should be shunned. The dravidian parties talk about humiliating treatment meted out by brahmins in the name of caste and they themselves delve in caste ridden politics and willing to physically harm people belonging to other communities. I’m not a brahmin but i have faith in the thought that everybody is equal. Caste based reservation is one of the biggest evil of our times and no less than the class based treatment practiced by some narrow headed earlier brahmins.
From my little education and understanding of the people and the world, I have noticed and observed more number of inter-caste, inter-state and inter-faith marriages among the brahmins than among the others.
I remember people used to be very shy and avoid mentioning anything about caste even discreetly about some two decades ago. Today people unabashedly ask to which caste one belongs. It has become common in various govt offices etc to find out the caste of employees or even directly asking, without any qualms or sense of sham.
With vote bank politics firmly entrenched people are being viewed as block voters on caste lines. People today are perhaps more sharply divided on caste and subdivions levels than at any other time. The greater the numbers the more will be the bargaining capacity for any caste in the debased political setup in which we find ourselves now. I stand corrected, if my understanding is faulty.
What’s wrong with someone wanting to marry within their community, or not wanting to marry someone from another community?
Well, nothing wrong in the actual decision itself. It’s a free country and people are free to marry whom they want. But that does not mean that the reasons for the decision are worthy of emulation.
While this post does make me rather uncomfortable, I must commend Dilip for choosing to write it. The topic of caste does affect how many Chennaiites think, much more so than video game controllers. And while it is never good to discriminate on the basis of caste, we must at least acknowledge that it exists.
I found your blog very interesting, firsly caste is an important thing it is part of our identity so I do not understand why people wish to hide there caste. As long as we do not treat people unfairly based on this, people should be proud if they are Pillai, Mudaliar, Chettiar or whatever caste they belong to. There is some hypocrisy amongst us as many people no longer want to use caste surnames yet when they look from brides or grooms they ask about this, also when they go to work people ask in all forms of society at some stage we will be asked these questions so why not just have the surname which shows everyone what cast you belong to like it use to be.
Though political leaders speak a lot about casteless society and all on every occasion, in many government related `documents and in school, college and university admissions, govt jobs one invariably commes across a column asking applicants their caste. Govts may justify it saying that the information is needed for benefits and concessions like reservation facilities to provide notified BCS etc, though there are other ways govts can get the same thro’ National Sample Survey, Statistical organisations etc. point here is mention of caste pops up at every stage in one’s life. It maybe more just if economic backwardness is taken in extenting govt concessions than birth in a particular caste.
Marriage within or outside one’s community or religion or state is a matter of one’s choice as it is their personal life and affair.
Comparitively speaking, one finds incidence of intercaste marriages more among brahmins, irrespective of their economic position. May I relate one instance just out of interest. I know a big Andhra brahmin family in Hyd which has among them a Tamilian Mudaliar, a Christian Nadar, a Bengali, a Sindhi daughter-in-law, a Kerala Menon, two American sons-in-law and the family members invariably meet once or twice in a year for functions. Sometimes it looks like a mini-India seeing them all together at functions in their houses.
Blog is only a short, to the point city-focused open forum. As the theme is interesting, it ran a bit long.
Disclaimer: I am not a person who believes in caste or creed. I just believe religion because its a way of living, it doesnt pertain to any particular god.
Certain group of people have some generic characteristics. And thats why people raise eyebrows when they find u r a brahmin…probably u are an exception..
hello dilip,
i bumped into ur blog and was surprised by the fact on how ignorant i was :-) anyways lemme introduce myself, i am an un adulterated adi dravidan livin now in australia. for years, ive been served with morals of the “brahmin” society by media and the politics though, we (me and my family together) have never been affected or discriminated.
i have a brahmin girl friend and at times, i must admit i have discriminated her on caste and with ur blog i kinda feel, its us whoz more vulnerable and sensitive to this issue than u guys. i think we guys discriminate u a lot, than vice versa and having said that, we do it just based on pre historic facts.
its hard for a colored dravidan like me to admit the fact, but yes, we are more sensitive with this subject and i personally think a drastic change is due.
i believe, though ur blog hasnt brought much changes in me, atleast it has shed some light.
hello dilip,
i bumped into ur blog and was surprised by the fact on how ignorant i was :-) anyways lemme introduce myself, i am an un adulterated adi dravidan livin now in australia. for years, ive been served with morals of the “brahmin” society by media and the politics though, we (me and my family together) have never been affected or discriminated.
i have a brahmin girl friend and at times, i must admit i have discriminated her on caste and with ur blog i kinda feel, its us whoz more vulnerable and sensitive to this issue than u guys. i think we guys discriminate u a lot, than vice versa and having said that, we do it just based on pre historic facts.
its hard for a colored dravidan like me to admit the fact, but yes, we are more sensitive with this subject and i personally think a drastic change is due.
i believe, though ur blog hasnt brought much changes in me, atleast it has shed some light.
Dai Dilip,
Why are you blabbering? Listen up, as long as people marry people of the same caste and glorify casteism stereotyping will happen. If it was not for the Dravidian leaders like Periyaar, still things would have been the same like it is in IIT Chennai (The – Iyer Iyengaar Institute of Technology where 85% of the professors are avool and give a cold shoulder treatment to others. Get to the roots man castesim is based on profession, so as long as there is casteism people will only try and do the creamy jobs and not clean roads, be a cobbler or whatever the Brahmins wont do. Why can’t everyone respect humans for what they are and marry them instead of going for pure shit casteism? Why can’t people love their work whatever it may be and feel proud to do the job the are doing with utmost sincerity. Why can’t Dravidans marry Brahmins and why can’t Brahmins teach Carnatic music to everyone and stop treating people with bias and talk in a peculiar Tamil accent once they meet someone of their caste? Why can’t people of different caste collaborate for reaching greater goals. Can’t you see Dilip you have gone on to prove what a typical Brahmin you are by self contradicting your own statement that you are a atheist (non follower) but you want to be a brahmin. Why can’t you say I am human to a baaaastard who ask you your caste? Make these idiots think!
As for you Yuvaraj I am so glad you got a life in Australia and a Brahmin gal friend following you there and it sucks when idiots like you speak nonsense under some assumptions. Come to India come to IIt and see for yourself probably the quota you got earned you a gal friend in Australia.
We Indians are like Peacock stretching our feathers, dancing to others tunes, showing off the attachments we have (caste, my son in law is in states, my athimbear is a lawyer for the minister, I have the biggest caste behind my back, my dad is a …………..). Why can’t we for a change stop this and be like Tigers – (The Indians Geared with Equality, Rationality and Simplicity)…….???????
It’s very interesting to see various perspectives about caste, religion, creed etc,. I honestly believe that the author is trying to bring forth issues that deserve a lot of attention. We are at a crucial time in our country’s history and with so much at stake, caste-ridden society is bound stunt growth in the long run.
There is no doubt that stereotyping of Brahims/Iyers are a common thing in India of being racists/casteists. I also strongly believe that both sides have to confront their “own sides” in order to see meaningful progress. We all know the historical facts about casteism and their effect on “lower” castes etc. On the flip side it’s also true that all Dravidian parties have used this as wedge issue to create divisions among us, so they can continue to swindle money in the ensuing confusion.
I try to confront myself and my friends when we have discussion about these things. It’s unfair to potray an entire community in stereotypical way.How does the Mudiliyar community treat the Schedule Castes? What about Pillai’s towards other “lower” castes? Have people seen the Matrimonials? The majority of the ads all want people from their own castes.I mean we can go on about it. We all have castes, race, religion entrenched in us and we are not about to lose them overnight. But, I do believe we can change it and it’s probably these subtle confrontations that slowly can bring about the change. Also, this problem is not an exclusive domain of India/Indians, it’s a phenomenon that plagues much of the world, albeit differently in the respective regions.
i suppose this blog is made for chennai . why unnecessarily bring casteism here? and one gentlemen has made a comment about christianity. if christianity has not spread education through their missionaries you may as well be living in iron age. loyola college is dominated by the so called “dominated” upper castes!!
Dilip,next time please post something that is specific to the city of Chennai.The subject/issue that you raised in this post is something that exists all over India.
PeacockFeathers : Show some respect when you talk to me will you? Im not your servant to address me “DAI”. Talk to me and address me by my name and i shall respond to you in a civilized manner.
Khaleel,
If you compare social differences, why restrict the discussion to caste alone? Why not compare among religions too?
My only point is that christians have a head start in education – the main leveller of society – due to the head start provided to them by the British, and which they have carefully nurtured.
This enviable attitude to education should be analysed and copied for the good of the rest of society.
Posts in metro blogs are usually city-centred. They range from issues like bus services, footboard travel, road encroachments, overflowing drains, bad roads, fleeing of customers by autos, and many others that touch and affect citizens in way or the other. These problems exist and events like seminars, workshops, photo exhibitions, youth fests, concerts and the like take place in many other cities and towns in the country.
When issues like these are posted on metro-specific blogs, they generate comments from bloggers with possible solutions and answers. Besides they may throw more light on many issues. Educated villagers, others working in rural areas may find a solution for many problems they face working in remote areas if they have access to info posted on blogs.
Problems are common to people with varying degrees of intensity whereever they are based, I feel.
Posts in metro blogs are usually city-centred. They range from issues like bus services, footboard travel, road encroachments, overflowing drains, bad roads, fleeing of customers by autos, and many others that touch and affect citizens in way or the other. These problems exist and events like seminars, workshops, photo exhibitions, youth fests, concerts and the like take place in many other cities and towns in the country.
When issues like these are posted on metro-specific blogs, they generate comments from bloggers with possible solutions and answers. Besides they may throw more light on many issues. Educated villagers, others working in rural areas may find a solution for many problems they face working in remote areas if they have access to info posted on blogs.
Problems are common to people with varying degrees of intensity whereever they are based, I feel.
//Its very very funny because i have to travel back in time using a time machine and find out which loser great grand father of mine abused which lower caste person//
Travel just one year in time
1. What did the AIIMS doctors sing when they protested against OBC Reservation – Go and do your work – they had brooms when they sang that – they still say that studying in brahmin work and sweeping is for other castes
The truth is that you are not like your forefathers – I accept
But there are 85 % of guys who are like your forefathers
Please understand
//But there are 85 % of guys who are like your forefathers//
Thats bullshit,
Today the people who do caste based atrocities are actually the other major castes.
Is it brahmins who are ordering to have 2-tumbler system in village Tea Shops?
Is is brahmins who are not allowing elections to take place in SC reserved villages of Pappapatti and Keeripatti?
Mr Anon, Please Think!
hi,
i am a brahmin girl. you brahmin guys might not realise it, but brahmin guys are not love/marriage material. i dont blame just you guys – the current social setup is also a reason.
most of my friends (brahmin girls) DONT want to marry a brahmin boy. even i am like that. the reasons? read below:
1) in the current, very competitive setup, brahmin guys – from childhood – have been programmed to take advantage of ANYTHING and everything that comes their way – to the point they will not be even be good friends. this might earn you a good job and a arranged marriage bride in later years. but dont expect a girl to like you after they know about you (and brahmin girls are no exception).
2) by the time a brahmin guys is settled in his life he is almost 30 or after 30. almost all have bald heads when they get married. most young brahmin girls find other attractive guys by this time.
3) the western influence (thank god!) is making parents realise that love is important for their girl children also. so many parents today are open to a good educated son-in-law from other castes.
4) in my college, and in my class, you can see that the brahmin guys are the puniest, cunning fellows – i am sorry to say this. but thats the reality. you can say whatever – but a girl wants a man who can protect her financially and PHYSICALLY. physical charms like well built body, broad chest and strong shoulders give us that impression. while i can point out many good looking, normal guys who are funny, willing to share from other castes, i dont see ONE brahmin boy in my college like that. there is only one love story that involves a brahmin guy – he is super rich, btw.
5) many brahmin guys are hypocrites. while most cringe at the thought of eating meat, they relish alcohol – and some even blog about wines! while y some act non-meat eating at homes, they eat meat with their friends. most talk about the glory of their caste, but fail to read even the basic texts that would give them some understanding about what they are talking!
most other caste boys (not FCs), dont have these faults (they do other common faults – common to all men – but brahmins have the above in addition to what can be considered normal deviations).
i come from a family where my decisions will be respected. and i am sure that i will NOT marry a brahmin boy – my parents know this and they respect my desicion. any brahmin girls reading this message and shaking their head, try spending some time with boys from other castes – not FCs – but from bc/mbc/sc/sts . you will find them so much better than the cynical, cunning brahmin boys.
i wrote my mind (and this is the frame of mind of many of my relatives and my friends in college). i really feel sorry for brahmin guys who are being trained this way from beginning. but i think they should change atleast after they graduate from college.
Dilip,
I think this post fits perfectly to the Chennai theme. How long are people going to ignore the INJUSTICE done to Brahmins in TN esp. Chennai? Every other caste has some gain irrespective of which party forms the government whereas the Brahmins are the ones affected each time a new government is formed. People talk about democracy and secular state.. There is no equal opportunity. Even if a student gets 98%, just because he/she is a Brahmin there is no way one can dream of a medical seat or a seat in CS Anna Univ. But a person from BC/MBC/SC/ST needs nothing close to 98% to get an admission. Imagine the quality of professionals this state is producing. People who have an opportunity at education should jolly well have the capability/brains to secure marks to get admission and not a caste-advantage.
Have economical status for reservation and not caste. The government should focus of educating people and not solely on vote banks. It is only the people in the cities who use the reservation system to their advantage. What about the villagers, farmers, cobblers,plumbers etc? How many of their children are doctors or engineers?
>Have economical status for reservation and not caste.
hi sweta,
ready for socialism and communism? i thought brahmins hated that! :)
all those who are complaining about the never-ending reservations, do you guys even think about the after effects of economic reservation? when will it end? the logical end to it is socialism and communism.
but most dont understand socialism/communism anyway.
and faking economical status certificates would be as easy as faking caste certificates.
talking about quality – do you know the marks a SC or a BC needs to get into anna univ CS? do you know the marks a BC or SC needs to get into a chennai medical college. I will grant that FCs would need at max 2-5 points. but that would not make me uncomfortable from hiring a bc/sc programmer or go to a sc/bc doctor. they tend to be more friendly and well-rounded compared to brahmins anyway – as brahmin ponnu pointed out above.
so swetha, instead of blurting out brahminical talking points, think for a second and then post.
No other post on this blog perhaps has generated as many responses as this recently, I suppose. More than three score opinions reflecting a range of perceptions – from pure disgust to more disgust and despise of the community.
If some found sufficient reasons for their inborn aversion and spitting fire, others tried to be moderate in showing their simmering discontent and seething anger, yet others straightforward in telling why no sensible girl ever think of marrying a person from the community. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, so long as it does not hurt the others.
Many average brahmins, born and brought up in poverty, like so many other people, and with absolutely no support from Govt or any quarter, have to struggle a lot to keep their home fires burning. They may have little brain, but can never have well grown stud like personalities, or swashbuckling honcho frames, given their backgrounds, food habits etc.
Maybe if they do some soul-searching, change their attitudes and give more space and scope to the views of others to command the respect of the others, I suppose.
Swetha, with all due respect i have no clue why you are all out to make villains out of brahmin men. Let me disprove your hallucinations here.
You:
1) in the current, very competitive setup, brahmin guys – from childhood – have been programmed to take advantage of ANYTHING and everything that comes their way – to the point they will not be even be good friends. this might earn you a good job and a arranged marriage bride in later years. but dont expect a girl to like you after they know about you (and brahmin girls are no exception).
My Response:
This is life, you take advantage of opportunity that comes your way. Its not just about brahmins but every damn person on earth is this way. Someone who lets go of opportunity that comes their way must either be too rich or too lazy.
You:
2) by the time a brahmin guys is settled in his life he is almost 30 or after 30. almost all have bald heads when they get married. most young brahmin girls find other attractive guys by this time.
My Reponse:
True, brahmins marry late you are probably right but are not looks the last thing on earth when it comes to a woman picking a guy?
You:
3) the western influence (thank god!) is making parents realise that love is important for their girl children also. so many parents today are open to a good educated son-in-law from other castes.
My Response:
Correct, my relatives by truck loads are married to people from other castes and religion. Why make this sound like its western value? Its our culture that is shaping to modern values.
You:
4) in my college, and in my class, you can see that the brahmin guys are the puniest, cunning fellows – i am sorry to say this. but thats the reality. you can say whatever – but a girl wants a man who can protect her financially and PHYSICALLY. physical charms like well built body, broad chest and strong shoulders give us that impression. while i can point out many good looking, normal guys who are funny, willing to share from other castes, i dont see ONE brahmin boy in my college like that. there is only one love story that involves a brahmin guy – he is super rich, btw.
My Response:
I now doubt that you really are not a girl and not a brahmin at all. You are arriving at conclusions that are baseless and have no scientific or solid backing or data of any sort. You are trying to stereo type how brahmins look and you fail miserably. I have been photographing army men and women in the OTA at chennai for 1 year now. See my images on flickr of these brahmin men and reconsider your baselsss arguement.
You:
5) many brahmin guys are hypocrites. while most cringe at the thought of eating meat, they relish alcohol – and some even blog about wines! while y some act non-meat eating at homes, they eat meat with their friends. most talk about the glory of their caste, but fail to read even the basic texts that would give them some understanding about what they are talking!
My Response:
You are stereo typing again. Eating meat and drinking wine is a personal preference. you have no right to say who should do what. Your claims that all brahmins should read their religious text is stupid. Im a brahmin and im an atheist. I dont want to read my scriptures or any scriptures about god or religion for that matter.
You:
most other caste boys (not FCs), dont have these faults (they do other common faults – common to all men – but brahmins have the above in addition to what can be considered normal deviations).
i come from a family where my decisions will be respected. and i am sure that i will NOT marry a brahmin boy – my parents know this and they respect my desicion. any brahmin girls reading this message and shaking their head, try spending some time with boys from other castes – not FCs – but from bc/mbc/sc/sts . you will find them so much better than the cynical, cunning brahmin boys.
i wrote my mind (and this is the frame of mind of many of my relatives and my friends in college). i really feel sorry for brahmin guys who are being trained this way from beginning. but i think they should change atleast after they graduate from college.
My Response:
Im glad for your family, fortunately my family is so too and the partner i choose is my choice. Dont make it sound like you are the only one on earth where you have been give freedom when it comes to picking a partner. Its 2007 and you need to argue better than this. Bringing up stereo typed claims, irrational claims about brahmins being this and being that is not only reflecting your cheap attitude but also shows how less you have actually thought about what you are talking about because none of the things you have said are unique to brahmin men or any community for that matter. Its a general trait/trend found in people in the society on the whole.
Stop arriving at conclusions based on one or two instances and claim entire community of men to be hypocrites and false. Literally millions of brahmin women marry brahmin men and live a happy family in this country and across the world which disproves all of your theories.
Dilip, just curious to know from your comment above- how do you know that the men you photographed in OTA are brahmins?!
dai dilip,
like bjp, rss, you are stroking caste based feelings here to get more responses – and you gloat about the number of responses.
how low can you go? finally you are showing your unjaviruthi colours. you should be blogging these issues elsewhere.
how much did tambras pay you for this post?
dai dilip,
some questions:
what colour is your dog leash (poonol)?
what moothiram (oops), gothiram are you?
do you drink alcohol – like your forefathers who were drunk with soma banam and ate raw livers (as ahuthi in yajnaas)?
how many thousands of cattle were killed by your forefathers’ yajnas?
tell you what? we will give you exemption in reservation. just tell us that you are sorry for all the atrocities committed by your ancestors when they were drunk with soma and raw cattle blood – after presenting their wives to their guests at indra festivals.
Gosh!
So much hatred being spewed out.Unbelievable.
Thanks are due to BrahminPonnu and IdiotDilip for providing the only moments of comic relief in the midst of such a serious discussion:)
Please readers forgive me. I am a waste of your time and my time. I can’t prove myself anywhere so I tried atleast here if I can act like a macho which I am not. I give up. I will stop writing nonsense about people and I am getting scared at loosing Brahmin gals to others. I am an idiot and I support idiotic bramanical ideologies. I should have never been born on this planet. I fail to understand what great leaders like Subramaniya Bharathiyaar have done to the society coming from the same caste I am from. I fail to understand there are other Indians who are more accepting and colloborating then myself.I am ashamed of myself and now you can take few seconds to spit on my face and.
@idiotdilip:
[quote]
tell you what? we will give you exemption in reservation. just tell us that you are sorry for all the atrocities committed by your ancestors when they were drunk with soma and raw cattle blood – after presenting their wives to their guests at indra festivals.
[/quote]
Why should the present generation brahmins be sorry for what the forefather did? I am a brahmin and I refuse to take responsibilities for anything that my forefathers did. I can stand up for my father but, not people who walked this land 50 or 100 years ago.
I agree that the practices that you have mentioned are disgusting. but, it was done by ignorant people much before us. For that matter, in many places in India such activities are still going on. Irrespective of religion or caste, its the education or the lack of it that make people act good or in barbarian manners. Lets, see this radically.
8 out of 10 brahmins today will disagree to practice the rituals you mentioned. Yess I agree that there are many people even today who believe in caste and religions. But, lets not say that its brahmins and brahmins only. They are all deeds done by humans. It’s only a question of upbringing.
Its amazing to note that why only Brahmins out of all the other guys here keep saying I am a bramin I don’t eat irameen I am not so mean. No other caste guys or gals are saying we/i am from what ever caste and making a mockery out of it.
Udayms – I agree that the practices that you and ur fellow (brahmin) bloggers have mentioning your caste here are disgusting. but, its ironic only Brahmin bloggers mention their caste. Why are the other bloggers here not mentioning their caste is it taken for granted you will think all readers here are ignorant people as ur forefathers thought much before u.
Hi Dilip,
I am surprised to read, even, many youths are still proud of being part of a community, whatever they belong to.
Just by being part of a community, I don’t see, one is superior or inferior.
Regards,
Ramesh Natarajan
Global Indian
I am not much educated, but I heard that in journalism courses they say that `If a dog bites a man it is no news, but if a man bites a dog it is news.’ What it perhaps means is that any information that raises the eyebrows of a large number of people in a given area is news.
Since the post and comments are revolving on a section of people and their alleged ommissions and commissions from time immemorial, naturally there will be divergent views and counter-views.
One gentleman wanted to know Why only bramins, out of all guys here keep saying `I am a bramin, I don’t eat iramin or I am not mean.’ It maybe due to the fact that the heat of discussion is turned on them and are on the defensive.
Also, other guys, like referees in sports, maynot have any stakes. And also they are not at the crease to receive seamers, googlies and fulltosses! Leave it at and take the theme lightly as a blog is just for fun.
Nobody likes to be caught in a time warp. Definitely not 21st century youths, known for their Formula-1 race brains and dynamism.
A blog post with its witty comments provide light-hearted fun. Many issues if laced with a fine sense of humour provide great relief, if one is good at expressions and allows mindspace for the others, I think.
This is by and far one the heated blogs I have come across. I suppose most of the people have their comments (whether if it is spiteful, derogatory, critical and in a few circumstances admirable) has predominantly, in my opinion, stemmed from personal experiences or just biased views stemmed from media/political manipulation. I believe people are entitled to their opinion under any circumstance, but my pledge is to see reason and be rational before being critical and arriving at a prejudiced judgment.
That being said, Brahmins don’t exactly have a past/legacy to be entirely proud off (not referring to any leaders or great men in history). I am sure everyone is well aware of their atrocities and to be frank, their self-glorifying narrow minded thinking. But we are not living in the past anymore and things have changed ever since. Asking a Brahmin guy today to atone for the wrong-doings of their forefathers (or even father or grandfather) is quite irrational. A Brahmin guy today (as you put it 8/10 times) is of a different nature and has grown up with a more global mentality. There are a few differences in the mannerisms and linguistic approach, but at the end of the day are more driven due to the oppression they have to face today. There is this misleading notion that Brahmins are rich and will frown upon a person with a small job. But the really question I pose is don’t you do that as well? Are you not proud of your job/accomplishment when a lot of factors work against you? I believe this pride is misinterpreted as being condescending.
In all fairness, ask yourself, do you really think it is fair for a person (a 17 yr old) not to get into a nice medical college/engineering college when his peers whose scores is almost half gets in with ease when their family income level is on par. I mean, what happened to healthy competition or better yet, where is the motivation to outperform when things come to you in silver platter? Please don’t get me wrong when I say this, we all here want growth and prosperity, but how can you achieve this when a few people are denied a good education based on their caste? My appeal here is to the poor Brahmins/other caste whose plight is determined, not by their dedication and hard work, but their ill-fate to born in such a critical society.
I completely believe in “affirmative action” and that aiding and assisting the unprivileged is important and should remain an integral part of our constitution. But I can help but be critical of the approach. I believe a better approach would be segregation by income level. In segregating by caste, you only instigate hate by reminding someone of their place in a bull-shit caste system that existed centuries ago. Income level segregation does have its own demerits, but at least, you don’t leave out the poor Brahmins/other caste/religions from having a good and proper education.
Coming to a lighter side, there are a few stereotypical traits of a Brahmin and believe me, 8/10 are doing their best to avoid them. As far as marriage is concerned, you should be able to make your own choices. I mean come on, it’s your life! Not your parents’!
And my last appeal is to the Brahmins out there – if you really think you are innocent victims in this segregated society, you have to be mistaken. There are atrocities still being done today. You know that you have a relative out there or grand dad or grand mom, who still imposes those shallow mentalities on you and affect other people. I know you are thankful for the fact that you are not like that and have something called “humanity” instilled in you. But therein lies the greater crime of turning a blind eye when you could be welcoming them to our modern socio-friendly age.
Lastly, stealing from Lyndon B. Johnson:
“Until justice, education and opportunity is unconcerned with the caste or religion or race of men, emancipation will be a proclamation but not a fact.”
My response to brahminponnu’s comment:
http://udayms.wordpress.com/2007/11/16/brahmin-guys-are-not-lovemarriage-material-says-brahmin-girl
Dear Veritas, Udayms, Dilip, Swetha matra ella utraar uravinar ellarukum. Chumma adikeene pogatheenga pa. Come to reality guys how many of you will accept and appreciate fellow indians. Look at the questions some are asking here, just a remainder for you all… 1.I am not quite sure what the author meant with the first two sentences since he seems rather keen to “reveal his cultural identity in public spaces”, as he puts it.
2.UDyams, this post is not related to chennai in anyway, except that the author resides in chennai.
3.”I am an Iyengar. I should have been blessed to have been born as an Iyengar. Having been born as an Iyengar, how can I get married to someone from some other caste” She, Dilip, is as much as the IT person that you are trying to represent.
4.If it was not for the Dravidian leaders like Periyaar, still things would have been the same like it is in IIT Chennai (The – Iyer Iyengaar Institute of Technology where 85% of the professors are avool and give a cold shoulder treatment to others.
5. suppose this blog is made for chennai . why unnecessarily bring casteism here?
6.most of my friends (brahmin girls) DONT want to marry a brahmin boy. even i am like that
7.like bjp, rss, you are stroking caste based feelings here to get more responses – and you gloat about the number of responses.
8.what colour is your dog leash (poonol)?
what moothiram (oops), gothiram are you?
9.its ironic only Brahmin bloggers mention their caste. Why are the other bloggers here not mentioning their caste
10.`If a dog bites a man it is no news, but if a man bites a dog it is news.’ If Brahmins stereo type people its no news if Dilip says others stereotype Brahmins its News!
11.Why can’t we for a change stop this and be like Tigers – (The Indians Geared with Equality, Rationality and Simplicity)…….???????
Some can’t and will only be a pea-cock
Hi! this may be totally off the topic but since you brought out the “brahmin” issue, I would like to share my experience with you all. I am a tamilian, but been staying in chennai/tamilnadu only for the past 3 years. I studied in Delhi.
When i started making new friends here, the i would always be asked whether i am a brahmin or not and what caste i am from. It used to embarrass me sometimes, not because i felt shy but because never before in my life before I came to chennai, people have ever asked me what caste i was from. People often mistake me for a north Indian initially but then when I tell them that I am a tamilian, the question usually pops out.
the funny part is 95% of my group are iyer/iyengars and each and everytime we hang out together, someone or other jokes in “brahminacal tamil” and the other brahmins join in. Then they joke around saying iyengars are superior etc. I have a major funny bone, but somehow this never appeals to me. and mind you all of them are good people doing good in their lives. I just find all this amusing coz I find this only in chennai.
The only thing in north i have come across is the remark of “baniyas” are misers. But thats it, nothing else.
I do hear weird stuff lots of times, like my senior colleague telling me that his parents warning him to hang out with only “brahmin” girls or friends finding trouble finding it difficult to find accommodation because the landlord wants a brahmin/veg only. if this is not cast-ism, what is?
Dillip loooks like your statements are true look at the amount of abuse you are receiving here, I have nothing against Brahmins firstly but I do understand the discrimination you face which is a shame. The other thing I do not understand is why do many people no longer use caste surnames I mean it is part of who you are why not use it? People in Kerela and Andrha Pardesh still use Reddy, Rao, Naidu, Menon etc why has this been changed in TN, regardless caste is and will always be a question that will be asked in Chennai and TN. People should not shy away from and people should not discriminate againt each other based on this. We will all lose a sense of who we are if we don’t use titles I mean we can’t all use our fathers name as our name. If you travel abroad Tamilians are the only ones who face problems as we are yet to have the surname concept in our culture all other people in India have it so why not us?
Hi! great debate going on around in this forum. I am living in chennai for the past few months and I am slowly understanding the culture of this place. I guess you guys are really making a big issue of caste. You havent seen the caste based discrimination in the north of this country. I see that there is reverse discrimination in tamilnadu. I was in the US for a while and I saw quite a lot of tamil brahmins doing big time research, business…professionals etc. I was wondering why they didnt do the same here in tamilnadu. I was told by a few of them that they are humiliated and discriminated in all colleges on the basis of their caste etc and hence they left this state. In a few years to come you wouldnt find any tamil brahmin’s in tamilnadu. And yes, the brahmins here (the ones i came across) seem to be very timid…Up in the north my cousin is a bahubali and the community strength is very strong there. and yes, I AM a UP Brahmin ( though i would not be one if you have to really see the virtues of a brahman). But the state of tamil brahmin’s is terrible.
this is perhaps the most nonsensical debate i have ever come across.
khaleel ahmed
this is perhaps the most nonsensical debate i have ever come across.
khaleel ahmed
It is good that few people like you who are willing to look forward to a multi-cultural society, but the fact is most of the Brahmins are trying hard to make sure that their identity is well known to everyone by displaying signs on their forehead or by showing their poonal and if everything fails, they start their conversation in a slang that they have created for them, until these things fade they will be stereotyped.
Brahmins always RULE, shudras lick their asses forever. And, thats the TRUTH!!
What Dravida kazhagam did was more of a balancing act. In today’s world it would be foolish to distinguish men on caste. A brahmin can be a sandiyar and a devar can be a geek. It is just the mind and circumstances that create and shape up people. Even if we clone Hitler, it is uncertain that he would go on to be the same man that we was.
There was casteist identities and occupation based on it, now you can surely say that it is not so – as lower caste people are even allowed to be as temple priests. It is a slow but sure change.
You can be proud on your caste but your caste cant make what you want to be in life. In order to make that happen, you’ve got to be truly multicultural society at all levels as well as transparency and that starts in schools and communities.
Chennai becoming a true metro soon these communal thoughts will be put to rest.
Tamil Brahmin, Telugu Brahmin, Malayala (Kerala) brahmin………. is a common thing not present with other caste people. no Sardar would say tamil singh! no reddy would say tamil reddy or for that matter anyother caste folks. Only Brahmins have the funny way of putting a language name of the state in which they are before their names and then do nothing for the state. Brahmins have affinity or love for the soil from which they come. Enkayavathu poo eppadiyavathu polaichuku aduthavana emmathi! Eppo ellam avoo ellam U.S poiuduraaa. Kids ellam 14 years ana undanee inga vanthu padika vaikiraa, Thirupee anga kutundoo pora.I.I.Tle DASA admission (direct addmision for students abroad) laam vaichuiruka? Thaan prostitute aanathu illama Indiavaiye prostituta aaka pakuraa.ABCD pasnga nariya pera aiyutaa. U.S le aduthava asses ellam lick pannitu inga vanthu, When I was in America appadinu adavadi thanama pesuraa. corporate sectorle enaku avole theriyum ivola theriyumnu solli key postions ellam eduthukiraa. Nation, People, Progressive growth ellam brahmins mattum avaaluke uriyathunuu thappa nenachitaal. Evoloo pannavaal ellorum manishaal thaan enbathaye maruthuutaal. Eppo brahminse ellorum manushaalnu nenaikama marakaraloo appo avoluku ellorukum vulum oru periya aapu!
Enna mama adindu irunthele? Thukitala. I guess this is your last musing you are kicked out of this blog and man its amazing to have a clean blog back in action without u. You better go somewhere else and see if u can prove something. All the best big time loser Dilip…. Hehehehehe!